The Situation with Tucker Carlson
Updated: 12:14 p.m. ET July 28, 2005
Guest: Debbie Stabenow, Rachel Maddow
TUCKER CARLSON, HOST: Air America’s Rachel Maddow and “Mad money” star Jim Cramer part of THE SITUATION tonight. And what a show it is.
...
Next SITUATION, the sex offenders next door. Are there some? Well, you can find out now. An enterprising company has married Megan’s Law and the Internet to create mapsexoffenders.com. In theory anyway, you type in your address and get a map of the homes of all registered sex offenders in your area. The map just currently covers just 14 states, with a plan eventually to include all 50.
I spent a good part of the day online looking at this. It’s amazing. It tells you a lot. The interesting thing is this web site is now forcing states to comply with Megan’s Law.
CRAMER: I love it.
CARLSON: Utah, all states must keep track of sex offenders, right? Utah gave their information to this web site, it turns out a lot of addresses were wrong; ¾ were wrong because Utah hasn’t been sort of keeping up with the sex offenders. This is keeping government honest in the best way.
CRAMER: I want to see it in my Lexus, in the GPS. I got to have this. Maybe Toyota will do that in next year’s models.
MADDOW: I want to know where all the Denny’s are, where all the sex offenders are, and where the libraries are.
No listen, in this case, you have a for-profit company selling maps to the homes of hated people. What could possibly go wrong?
CARLSON: They’re not selling it, it’s free.
MADDOW: They’re going to sell it to the states. It’s a for-profit company. It is a for-profit company.
CARLSON: That information is publicly available. They’re taking publicly available information that a lot of sites use.
MADDOW: And mapping it and so they’re providing maps to the homes of hated people. So I mean, basically what we’re going to end up with—with 2/3 of the addresses wrong. And whether that’s the government’s fault or whether that is this company’s fault, you’ll have the mobs with the pitchforks and the torches.
CARLSON: No.
MADDOW: Going after the—
CARLSON: No.
CRAMER: No, you never get those. That’s the unfortunate thing.
MADDOW: You’ll never get the mobs?
CRAMER: Oh, I’m pro—it’s good. I always thought vigilantism was good. It’s better than fascism.
CARLSON: It’s better than rape, actually, it turns out. And this law has been on the books for more than 10 years. That’s not happened. You’ve not seen mobs with pitchforks. Americans are nicer than you suggest, or a lot of us thought. They haven’t done this. And this information is out there. This is just making it accessible to people. What’s wrong with that?
MADDOW: The maps to the homes of people who have done things that are bad is something we don’t do for any other crime. And we do need to consider the fact that we think that, obviously child molesters and sex offenders are horrible people and have done bad things. But you don’t go back to the 19th century ways of doing things because their crime is so bad.
CARLSON: Why? Because they had much less child molestation in the 19th century. Why? Because they didn’t put up with it, so I’m kind of for that.
MADDOW: Well, maybe we didn’t know about it. It’s our panic. At this point, this is the thing for which we’re willing to throw away anything we’ve ever learned about crime.
CARLSON: Good.
MADDOW: And do it differently for these people. That’s where the system is faulted.
CARLSON: No, actually, this is what we’ve learned about crime. If you don’t put up with it, it goes away.
CRAMER: This is an empirical issue.
CARLSON: Yes.
MADDOW: This is a small c, conservatism thing that I think people don’t get.
CARLSON: Next SITUATION: The honeymoon is definitely over for one young husband and his very young wife. The operative word is, as you may know, “young”. The 22-year-old husband faces criminal charges in Nebraska for having sex with his own wife, who was 13 at the time. The couple were legally married in Kansas after she became pregnant. And her mother and his parents gave them permission to marry.
Now, Mathew Koso (ph), charged with first degree sex assault, punishable by up to 50 years in prison. OK. Before you hop at me—this guy is a creep, obviously.
But he’s not the only person who has impregnated a 13-year-old girl. What sets him apart is, he’s one of the very few who married her. My questions is only this: Not is it right that slept with her. It’s wrong. Is it right for the judge or the prosecutor to try to send this guy to prison? They have a child. Does make it better if the father goes to prison? No.
CRAMER: I agree with that. I have to say, these issues—now that I have a 14-year-old.
CARLSON: Right.
CRAMER: I’m thinking totally realistically it could happen. And I would kill that guy.
CARLSON: Of course, that’s the right move. But barring that, it’s better they got married, do you think?
CRAMER: Yes.
MADDOW: I think the marriage is totally irrelevant. The guy had sex way 13-year-old girl and therefore has to go to prison for it.
CRAMER: I like that. You really agree with that?
MADDOW: Yeah.
CRAMER: That’s so crazy.
CARLSON: No, but you are leaving out, I think, the key factor. That’s the child. There is a child now. I agree with you, it is a crime that he had sex with her and he should be punished. But there is a child. And the interests of the child matter, I think, most here.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Sending him to prison hurts the child.
MADDOW: What if it is not statutory rape? What if it’s rape or what if it is incest? A child is produced. Does that mean the person who raped or committed incest with a girl should not be prosecuted?
CARLSON: No, of course not. But in this case, they’re voluntarily marrying with the blessings of their parents. Again, it’s sick. But the question, again, is who does this hurt? It hurts the child. Therefore, it’s a bad idea to send this guy to prison for 50 years.
MADDOW: You cannot give people carte blanche to have sex with 12-year-olds.
CARLSON: Right.
MADDOW: When the age of consent is 16.
CRAMER: The middle schools would never be the same.
MADDOW: If you are lucky enough for her to get pregnant, you won’t go to jail. That is a bad principle.
CARLSON: Well, actually—no, no, no. But he married her. And that is the difference. And by the way, just for the record here, in Kansas, the age of marriage according to case law -- 12.
MADDOW: The age of consent, 16.
(CROSSTALK)
CRAMER: Kansas and Nebraska were fighting each other.
CARLSON: Interesting.
...
Guest: Debbie Stabenow, Rachel Maddow
TUCKER CARLSON, HOST: Air America’s Rachel Maddow and “Mad money” star Jim Cramer part of THE SITUATION tonight. And what a show it is.
...
Next SITUATION, the sex offenders next door. Are there some? Well, you can find out now. An enterprising company has married Megan’s Law and the Internet to create mapsexoffenders.com. In theory anyway, you type in your address and get a map of the homes of all registered sex offenders in your area. The map just currently covers just 14 states, with a plan eventually to include all 50.
I spent a good part of the day online looking at this. It’s amazing. It tells you a lot. The interesting thing is this web site is now forcing states to comply with Megan’s Law.
CRAMER: I love it.
CARLSON: Utah, all states must keep track of sex offenders, right? Utah gave their information to this web site, it turns out a lot of addresses were wrong; ¾ were wrong because Utah hasn’t been sort of keeping up with the sex offenders. This is keeping government honest in the best way.
CRAMER: I want to see it in my Lexus, in the GPS. I got to have this. Maybe Toyota will do that in next year’s models.
MADDOW: I want to know where all the Denny’s are, where all the sex offenders are, and where the libraries are.
No listen, in this case, you have a for-profit company selling maps to the homes of hated people. What could possibly go wrong?
CARLSON: They’re not selling it, it’s free.
MADDOW: They’re going to sell it to the states. It’s a for-profit company. It is a for-profit company.
CARLSON: That information is publicly available. They’re taking publicly available information that a lot of sites use.
MADDOW: And mapping it and so they’re providing maps to the homes of hated people. So I mean, basically what we’re going to end up with—with 2/3 of the addresses wrong. And whether that’s the government’s fault or whether that is this company’s fault, you’ll have the mobs with the pitchforks and the torches.
CARLSON: No.
MADDOW: Going after the—
CARLSON: No.
CRAMER: No, you never get those. That’s the unfortunate thing.
MADDOW: You’ll never get the mobs?
CRAMER: Oh, I’m pro—it’s good. I always thought vigilantism was good. It’s better than fascism.
CARLSON: It’s better than rape, actually, it turns out. And this law has been on the books for more than 10 years. That’s not happened. You’ve not seen mobs with pitchforks. Americans are nicer than you suggest, or a lot of us thought. They haven’t done this. And this information is out there. This is just making it accessible to people. What’s wrong with that?
MADDOW: The maps to the homes of people who have done things that are bad is something we don’t do for any other crime. And we do need to consider the fact that we think that, obviously child molesters and sex offenders are horrible people and have done bad things. But you don’t go back to the 19th century ways of doing things because their crime is so bad.
CARLSON: Why? Because they had much less child molestation in the 19th century. Why? Because they didn’t put up with it, so I’m kind of for that.
MADDOW: Well, maybe we didn’t know about it. It’s our panic. At this point, this is the thing for which we’re willing to throw away anything we’ve ever learned about crime.
CARLSON: Good.
MADDOW: And do it differently for these people. That’s where the system is faulted.
CARLSON: No, actually, this is what we’ve learned about crime. If you don’t put up with it, it goes away.
CRAMER: This is an empirical issue.
CARLSON: Yes.
MADDOW: This is a small c, conservatism thing that I think people don’t get.
CARLSON: Next SITUATION: The honeymoon is definitely over for one young husband and his very young wife. The operative word is, as you may know, “young”. The 22-year-old husband faces criminal charges in Nebraska for having sex with his own wife, who was 13 at the time. The couple were legally married in Kansas after she became pregnant. And her mother and his parents gave them permission to marry.
Now, Mathew Koso (ph), charged with first degree sex assault, punishable by up to 50 years in prison. OK. Before you hop at me—this guy is a creep, obviously.
But he’s not the only person who has impregnated a 13-year-old girl. What sets him apart is, he’s one of the very few who married her. My questions is only this: Not is it right that slept with her. It’s wrong. Is it right for the judge or the prosecutor to try to send this guy to prison? They have a child. Does make it better if the father goes to prison? No.
CRAMER: I agree with that. I have to say, these issues—now that I have a 14-year-old.
CARLSON: Right.
CRAMER: I’m thinking totally realistically it could happen. And I would kill that guy.
CARLSON: Of course, that’s the right move. But barring that, it’s better they got married, do you think?
CRAMER: Yes.
MADDOW: I think the marriage is totally irrelevant. The guy had sex way 13-year-old girl and therefore has to go to prison for it.
CRAMER: I like that. You really agree with that?
MADDOW: Yeah.
CRAMER: That’s so crazy.
CARLSON: No, but you are leaving out, I think, the key factor. That’s the child. There is a child now. I agree with you, it is a crime that he had sex with her and he should be punished. But there is a child. And the interests of the child matter, I think, most here.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Sending him to prison hurts the child.
MADDOW: What if it is not statutory rape? What if it’s rape or what if it is incest? A child is produced. Does that mean the person who raped or committed incest with a girl should not be prosecuted?
CARLSON: No, of course not. But in this case, they’re voluntarily marrying with the blessings of their parents. Again, it’s sick. But the question, again, is who does this hurt? It hurts the child. Therefore, it’s a bad idea to send this guy to prison for 50 years.
MADDOW: You cannot give people carte blanche to have sex with 12-year-olds.
CARLSON: Right.
MADDOW: When the age of consent is 16.
CRAMER: The middle schools would never be the same.
MADDOW: If you are lucky enough for her to get pregnant, you won’t go to jail. That is a bad principle.
CARLSON: Well, actually—no, no, no. But he married her. And that is the difference. And by the way, just for the record here, in Kansas, the age of marriage according to case law -- 12.
MADDOW: The age of consent, 16.
(CROSSTALK)
CRAMER: Kansas and Nebraska were fighting each other.
CARLSON: Interesting.
...
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